New splitter Idea
Suggestions please this is just a mock up
There will be a transition peace between the splitter and the front radius of the clam
Plan is to make thw Brake duct area out of carbon and the splitter out of ABS since it will be a sacrificial piece
Huge Adrian Newey fan, avid hobbyist that loves aero, so do the exact opposite of what I recommend
I think the enter front of the M12-M400-Rossion is more show than go.
In your mock up, is the brake duct the inside duct or the outer most duct?
Because you would need to make the splitter stick out MUCH further to have any real benefit, I like the size and shape of your mock up.
For street driving, the Rossioble has brakes that really don't need external cooling.
For DE events, realistically the Rossiobles doesn't need external cooling. (on my last open track day, I definitely used the brakes much harder than my Lotus/S2000/Vintage 911 would have tolerated)
For R rated/slick tyre driving talented drivers, I dont know.
based on my Noble M12 (I dont know if the Rossion is similar) I would
Replace the very restrictive mesh grill with something that flows better (from what I read the M12 grill has approx 60% open space)
Modify/fabricate replacement ducts to have three outlets, up from the two with the block-off plate (yep, bet Mr Newey loves that setup) that comes factory.
Run the third hose to a backing plate so the air would be forced from the center of the disk out.
Not sure about the external vertical fence you have. i suspect the inside duct will work ok, but I suspect the outside duct will be in a stalled/low pressure area and will not do well.
Need more clarification on what your trying to do.
What i have found is that if you block the brake duct area you make a high pressure area that will generate some down force we are hoping the fence helps the down force. We are going cad model the aero to see what it does. what you are calling a fence is also the support for the splitter but it was an after thought and was not finished.
We have two ducts one you co pit air and for the brakes but it does not do much.
thanks for the ideas they all help
Yep, the "Qualifying Tape" used on the front of NASCAR's.
Originally Posted by gafernandez
would love to make a hand full of changes to the from of my M12.
Can you move the vertical fence/support over to the outside of the fender to make a side rail/end plates out of it?
According to that 3d model of the Q1 and Autocad's flow software this is where the most surface pressure is. I'd guess a knife-edge on the front air dam would be a big improvement
I respectfully disagree here. I "cook" my brakes every single time on the track. Once we were swapping the drivers after 2 hot laps on Thunderhill and I had to return straight back to pits as I had no brakes at turn one. It got better after nursing the brakes for half a lap but still had to abort the session. Same happens on hot days after 4-5 laps. The brakes on Rossion definitely need the cooling even on street tires from my experience.
Originally Posted by doug_porsche
If your goal is to create downforce, your design is OK. It would be much simpler to just tape off the existing outer ducts during the track event.
If your goal is to add a brake cooling, using the outer 1/4 of the existing duct, your design could be better
If your goal is to create downforce & add brake cooling, your design could be better
If you're after downforce and brake cooling then I bet you a Soda that, based on your first picture in your first post, the inside duct will work ok, but I the outside duct will be in a stalled/low energy area and will not flow much air.
I am assuming that
1) the 3/4 inner duct will supply air to the cockpit (same as existing/factory)
2) the outer 1/4 duct will supply the brake ventilation.
If I am reading your flow pict correctly, I see how the pressure is greatest at the center of the car and steadily, and rapidly, decreases as you move out. (just what I would expect) The last 1/4th of the existing duct just does not have much energy (comparatively).
That babbling being said, I appreciate/thank you for your contribution to the Noble Rossion community and am glad you're trying something new/different to improve our cars!
Last edited by doug_porsche; 01-31-2017 at 09:16 PM.
Wow, guess I am too conservative (easier on my ego than saying I am just slow).
Originally Posted by phun-ky
Was basing my comments off my trips to High Planes Raceway (http://highplainsraceway.com). I was using the straight line sections (hard on the gas and HARD on the brakes) to make up for my old tires lack of grip in the curvy sections to match overall pace with a friends (similar driving talent) Corvette C7.
But I will defer to you as it would not take much to have a better driving resume than what I have.
On the duct the outside corner beyond the fence will be blocked for cosmetic purposes. so the duct will be split in have to be used for brakes and cockpit air
On The subject of cooling the brakes i think you are both right, the more experienced drivers have no overheating of the brakes because they do threshold braking were less experienced drives do progressive braking which generates more heat. So a little air never hurts
Real life example I have a few track hours under my belt so the bulk of my braking is done in the high speed part of the approach to the turn " in other works I brake hard and get of the brakes" were my son in the same car when he first started driving the car on the track would progressively apply the brakes early to make the turn and would come into the pits with the brakes smoking think he was going faster then me. Lap timer showed the opposite.
Funny enough with a little tutoring from myself and Dave he if very fast now and does not over heat the brakes.
For parrents with fast cars that get the opportunity to get there kids on the track do it they seam to become much better street drives very quickly