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Thread: Hey guys. Very interested in a Noble. Noble M12 GTO 3R v m600

  1. #1

    Default Hey guys. Very interested in a Noble. Noble M12 GTO 3R v m600

    Hey guys. Joined yesterday. There is a very good chance I will pull the trigger soon.

    It will most likely see consistent track use. I did 30+ events last year and plan on doing more than that this year.

    I promise I tried the search feature. Found a lot of interesting threads. They gave me an idea of a couple upgrades to look for. However, I couldn't find everyone's opinion on Noble M12 GTO 3R and an m600 on track?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by theplatinumog View Post
    Hey guys. Joined yesterday. There is a very good chance I will pull the trigger soon.

    It will most likely see consistent track use. I did 30+ events last year and plan on doing more than that this year.

    I promise I tried the search feature. Found a lot of interesting threads. They gave me an idea of a couple upgrades to look for. However, I couldn't find everyone's opinion on Noble M12 GTO 3R and an m600 on track?
    Sorry, I meant 400

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by theplatinumog View Post
    However, I couldn't find everyone's opinion on Noble M12 GTO 3R and an m600 on track?
    Are there specific questions you had in mind?

  4. #4
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    I'm far from an expert here but this is what I've gathered using my Rossion on track:
    - Baffled oil pan is a must
    - Stock oil catch can/breather spits oil all over the engine on track
    - Check all turbo oil feed lines. Some cars have the hoses too close to turbo and they burn/crack.
    - Cooling may be an issue. I've upgraded the cooling system to higher pressure, others use radiator fan override switch (fan is preventing free flow at higher speeds supposedly), air intake modifications for the engine bay... I'm also planning on swapping the front and rear meshes for ones with larger openings/better air flow
    - Stock brakes/pads will likely not be enough for hard tracking. Willy or Hoover have upgrades available.
    - I'm running a pull fan on the intercooler but that may not be needed as Noble has better air flow through IC due to it's layout.
    - I keep burning the rear waste gate actuator so I used one of the air feed hoses to cool it. It may not be a problem on Noble, depends how close the exhaust is to the actuator I guess.
    - Seat belts: you may want to install a proper harness bar and figure out a proper mounting (e.g. seat plate) for the middle belt if using 5-point harness
    - Obviously, get some nice track-oriented tires
    - Silly things: windshield washer bottle is magically emptied after the first track session There is a little shelf behind the seats that fits a folding chair perfectly!

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by phun-ky View Post
    I'm far from an expert here but this is what I've gathered using my Rossion on track:
    - Baffled oil pan is a must
    - Stock oil catch can/breather spits oil all over the engine on track
    - Check all turbo oil feed lines. Some cars have the hoses too close to turbo and they burn/crack.
    - Cooling may be an issue. I've upgraded the cooling system to higher pressure, others use radiator fan override switch (fan is preventing free flow at higher speeds supposedly), air intake modifications for the engine bay... I'm also planning on swapping the front and rear meshes for ones with larger openings/better air flow
    - Stock brakes/pads will likely not be enough for hard tracking. Willy or Hoover have upgrades available.
    - I'm running a pull fan on the intercooler but that may not be needed as Noble has better air flow through IC due to it's layout.
    - I keep burning the rear waste gate actuator so I used one of the air feed hoses to cool it. It may not be a problem on Noble, depends how close the exhaust is to the actuator I guess.
    - Seat belts: you may want to install a proper harness bar and figure out a proper mounting (e.g. seat plate) for the middle belt if using 5-point harness
    - Obviously, get some nice track-oriented tires
    - Silly things: windshield washer bottle is magically emptied after the first track session There is a little shelf behind the seats that fits a folding chair perfectly!
    Thanks for the notes. The more I find out the more about these cars, the more they seem to be for me

    Safety is a huge concern for me. I have broken every bone in my body, including my neck. After I am an owner I am sure a proper safety set-up will be job #1. I use a Harness bar / hans / harness / fire suppression in my c7 that I track 4 or 5x a month.

    I assume this car won't rip through tires and brakes like the vette. I sure hope I get to know Willy and Hoover. I have a strange feeling I will

    Interesting about the fan over-ride to keep it cool while on track and turn it on as you pit.

  6. #6

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    I am still so new here that I would be interested in starting with the basics. A M12 GTO 3R would have more leather, sound deadening materials etc. What is the weight difference? I know its preference, but to people like the leather? Vs alcantera?

    One makes significantly more power right. Is the general consensus that it is worth it? Are there more cost effective ways to get the same power bumps?

    What about spring / damper rates? I think I read there are no anti-roll bars on a Noble M12 GTO 3R. I value handling over power.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by theplatinumog View Post
    I am still so new here that I would be interested in starting with the basics. A M12 GTO 3R would have more leather, sound deadening materials etc. What is the weight difference? I know its preference, but to people like the leather? Vs alcantera?
    No one really knows the weight difference, since few have weighed their cars.

    My M400 with an APR GTC300 wing and forgeline wheels weighed in at 2448lbs.

    One makes significantly more power right. Is the general consensus that it is worth it? Are there more cost effective ways to get the same power bumps?
    I want to say the M12 is around 350hp, while the M400 is around 420hp -- give or take 5-10hp. A lot of cars will have been slightly tuned to increase power though.
    If you decide to change anything to try to increase hp, you will need a remap. Hoover/Turbo Hoses charges $2000 per remap of the ecu. Willy provides remapping too, but not sure of his cost.

    What about spring / damper rates? I think I read there are no anti-roll bars on a Noble M12 GTO 3R. I value handling over power.
    I haven't driven a M12, so I can't speak to the benefit of the front sway bar, but it seemed many owners enjoy their cars without it.
    Spring rates and such can be changed pretty easily, since the coilovers are bolted to the suspension via two bolts that are easily accessible -- and I don't remember the exact dimensions, but
    the springs are pretty standard affair -- likely 6" free length, 2" dia...Any competent shock shop can revalve the shocks.

    There's no real adjusting, in terms of suspension -- unless you replace the coilovers with some remote reservoirs with adjustable dampening, otherwise you are stuck with playing with toe, ride height, and spring rates. No camber or caster adjustment at all unless you fab up some eccentric bolts.

    The real struggle you will have coming from a front (erm, front mid?) engined car is that, the Noble lacks a lot of mechanical grip -- so you have to relearn how to enter a corner. Mid corner is far more fun though in the Noble than a FR car.

    Finally, the front clam will take some abuse from track use... the paint is good, but you can only do so much to protect it from track debris you end up collecting.

  8. #8

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    Thanks again for the responses. How terrible is the ground clearance on both models? Trouble in either with typical speed bumps or steep driveways? If my c7 can do it, does a noble have a chance?

  9. Default

    I am going to make some assumptions.
    With 30 track days a year, you have some driving talent and are going to probe the cars limits.

    I have an M12 GTO 3R and do 3ish track days a year (guess I am 10th the driver you are)

    Starting with Phun-ky’s list

    - Baffled oil pan is a must.
    Yes. If you look under the car you can tell the “Track Pan” (most of which are baffled) by its big squarish aluminum add on (http://www.nobleforums.com/showthrea...4740#post84740 as an example)
    - Stock oil catch can/breather spits oil all over the engine on track
    I have not had this issue, maybe I just aint going fast enough.
    - Check all turbo oil feed lines. Some cars have the hoses too close to turbo and they burn/crack.
    As you know from 30 track days a year. Check ALL general mechanical before each event. This is a bit more of a pain if you are running the belly pan that goes under the motor. The belly pan is good for aero, but not required.
    - Cooling may be an issue. I've upgraded the cooling system to higher pressure, others use radiator fan override switch (fan is preventing free flow at higher speeds supposedly), air intake modifications for the engine bay... I'm also planning on swapping the front and rear meshes for ones with larger openings/better air flow
    On my M12 I originally had oil temp issue, (I don’t like that the ECU controls the water temp gauge and doesn’t tell you what is really going on).
    I swapped out the (factory) oil to water cooler for a front mounted oil to air heat exchanger. This knocked my oil temp down from TOO DANG HOT to 110 – 130 C range. I still keep an eye on it, but with your average synthetic oil, this is not an issue.
    Nobles are rumored to have the issue of getting plenty of air into the engine compartment, but not so good at getting the air out.
    I have addressed this by.
    Adding some panels in the very rear of the car to help keep the wake/turbulent air from the spinning rear tires from creating an air curtain, reducing flow. I have done some other tricks if you want more detail.

    - Stock brakes/pads will likely not be enough for hard tracking. Willy or Hoover have upgrades available.
    May be true, but test before you spend $$.
    on my first track day I was on track with a C7 Corvette. I knew if I wanted to hang with him I would need to abuse my brakes more than I normally like to.
    Figured I would do two or three laps of HARD breaking, and at the first sign of fading, let the Vette go. The breaks did all 10 laps without fading!!!
    I probably just need to go faster.
    - I'm running a pull fan on the intercooler but that may not be needed as Noble has better air flow through IC due to it's layout.
    Not really an issue on the M series when the car is moving. Its not ideal, but works.
    - I keep burning the rear waste gate actuator so I used one of the air feed hoses to cool it. It may not be a problem on Noble, depends how close the exhaust is to the actuator I guess.
    I have not had this issue, but again. After/before each event, check the mechanicals.
    - Seat belts: you may want to install a proper harness bar and figure out a proper mounting (e.g. seat plate) for the middle belt if using 5-point harness
    DO NOT USE THE 4 POINT BELTS. The look good at the local cars & coffee, but either upgrade to a 5 point or use the factory three point.
    - Obviously, get some nice track-oriented tires


    I am also going to have you check/upgrade to track axles. The factory axles are a DANGEROUS joke. See http://www.nobleforums.com/showthrea...47-Track-axles for more details.
    If you get an M12, you may find the springs/shocks a bit soft for the track. There are options, let your wallet be your guide

    Alignment is unnecessarily difficult. Factory, you can only adjust toe (and on the rear that is more difficult than necessary) . My car may have gotten too close to my brothers machine shop and now I can easily adjust rear tow, and camber. The better the tires and alignment, the better the driving experience

    As for ground clearance, different than, but not better or worse, than your C7. The Vette scrapes the leading edge of its nose where the Noble, with a front splitter, scrapes the outside front corners more.

  10. #10
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    I may be selling soon, car has some track upgrades and certainly has a power upgrade. If you look at the recent East coast track event pictures, it is the blue one with the #21 on the side. This car is seriously fast. There are/were only 2 of this color in the USA.

    EMAIL me: scottpolk1@outlook.com
    Over 3000lbs=boring. 0-60 over 4 seconds=boring. Under 1g=boring. Noble, not boring.

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