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Thread: Noble 5 lug conversion

  1. #1

    Default Noble 5 lug conversion

    I've been working thru converting my Noble to 5 lug hubs. The main items I'm trying to fix are:
    - Limited wheel selection
    - Limited brake rotor ring replacement options

    As our cars become older, brake rings will become harder to source.
    Our Nobles use a rotor hat/bell that uses a 190.5 PCD, which is a difficult PCD to find rotor rings for, unless you're in europe where support is still somewhat available.
    Your other options are TurboHoses (outrageously expensive and slow), Willy (great resource, but reliant on him having stock), or paying to have rotors shipped from Europe.

    I'm looking for a solution that will let me be able to order rotors from North American vendors quickly and reliably.

    While the wheel selection piece can be easily fixed with custom wheels, it doesn't fix the brake rotor limited availability. Finding 330x30 rings, in general, is difficult, let alone finding ones that fit the AP Racing rotor hat.



    I'll be documenting that process here, instead of Facebook, as these forums tend to be a bit more searchable, reliable, and archived.

    First, Noble OEM Hub dimensions, should be same for all four corners, but I only measured the fronts:
    - Part Number: ??
    - PCD: 4x108 (4x4.25")
    - Brake Pilot Diameter (Brake rotor bore): 63.5mm
    - Flange Diameter: 134mm
    - Height (total height of hub): 74mm
    - Hub Pilot Diameter (wheel bearing bore): 42mm
    - Spline Quantity: 27
    - Spline Bore: ~29mm
    - Wheel Pilot Diameter: 63.5mm
    - Brake/Wheel Pilot Height (Above flange): 18mm
    - Hub Pilot Height (Below flange): 34mm


    The easy method for 5 lug is using the BMW E30 hub, those dimensions are:
    - Part Number: SK930250, 29595062, SPK250
    - PCD: 5x120 (5x4.72")
    - Brake Pilot Diameter: 74.8mm
    - Flange Diameter: 145mm
    - Height: 73mm
    - Hub Pilot Diameter: 42mm
    - Spline Quantity: 27
    - Wheel Pilot Diameter: 72.4mm
    - Brake/Wheel Pilot Height: ??
    - Hub Pilot Height: ??


    But, you are trading limited wheel selection of the 4x108 architecture with the slightly less limited wheel selection of the 5x120 architecture.
    Add in finding off-the-shelf brake rotor solutions being limited to basically BMW.

    So, I'm looking at 5x114.3, which is extremely wide ranging, including a wealth of brake options.

    For my specific needs, I am looking for a hub that will fit the front track axles with limited or no modification to the hubs. My rear hubs are beholden to my custom set of Driveshaft Shop axles due to my Honda swap, which uses a larger 26 spline axle, or if I order new outers, which are fit 28 spline RX8 axles. The rear hubs are mostly complete, the fronts will be the main focus for this thread. Although those few other Nobles that have jumped ship to the Honda drivetrain could possibly benefit from this as well.

    Additionally, I'm doing this so I can reference this in the future.


    First, the rears. My DSS axles were using a custom set of hubs and axles. If I had a wheel bearing failure, I'd have to order a new hub from DSS, at $200+/ea.
    The hubs I were sent from DSS were marked as FD6, which is a custom hub they use that is machined out to fit their axle outers. The hub fits the Contour SVT wheel bearings.

    To move to a more available hub, I had DSS send me new outers that are based off of a RX8. Rebuild my axles with the new outer, and now my rear hub options have greatly increased. Currently, I have a pair of Ford Escape (01-12) hubs that fit the axles and the wheel bearings nearly perfectly. They are a bit too tall, with the wheel bearing shaft needing to be trimmed down to not stick out too far in the spindle. However, I'm still researching a hub that'll fix the axles and wheel bearing perfectly, without needing modification.

    Which leads the front hubs (more relevant to most Noble owners). I have pulled across something like 200 hub dimensions and only found a few 5x114.3 hubs that have the correct wheel bearing shaft bore and have the correct spline count.

    I thought I had hit the lotto with a Hyundai Elantra hub, but the wheel bearing shaft was 6mm too tall, and more importantly, the axle bore was 2mm too small. A machine shop could bore it out and recut the hub for the track axles, but again... that's a lot for modification for a part that is a wear item.

    I have a handful of hubs on order that will be arriving in the next week or two, I'll hopefully have an idea of what will or won't work shortly.

    The next step is to find a set of brake rotors that can fit the weirdly shallow brake rotor offset. The front brake rotors are offset by roughly 10mm, while the rear is offset by nearly 40mm. Wilwood offers a nice searchable catalog that has helped get me close to the front rotors, with the rotor rings being 332x32... oem rings being 330x30. But, brake rotors will be easy once I get the hub piece figured out. I can always go to a larger brake rotor (350mm) and space out the brake caliper as necessary.

    Anyways... will provide updates as I get thru it.

  2. #2

    Default

    Iíve never heard of this company, but I was curious since the e30 had a lot of support.

    https://clipzmotorsport.com/shop/e30...s-5x114-3-set/

    The 36&46 seems like they had more legitimate solutions like this.

    Actually, just had a thought; pasting a couple things real quick for me to look into later:
    https://nerptech.bigcartel.com/product/front-hubs-5x114-3-converted

    https://creationsmotorsport.com/bmw-e30-to-bmw-e36-e46-5-x-120-pcd-hub-conversion-kit-al0126.html
    Last edited by ConSynX; 11-09-2021 at 06:54 PM.

  3. #3

    Default

    More digging, it seems that the Koreans have lots of hubs that have a hub pilot of 42mm and a spline count of 27, but of the few hubs I've tried, the axle bore for the hubs have been 3-4mm too small. Right spline count, wrong diameter for the axle. They could be bored out and recut, but again... not a plug and play solution.



    I don't think those will work. I believe the rear E30 hubs are the ones that are used for the swap.

  4. #4

    Default

    Pfft! That front hub will work. I donít need no splines. Iím electric!

    (Whoops)
    Not looking good so far, but at least 5x120 is still an upgrade.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    West Creek Nj
    Posts
    424
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    Default

    I race a E30 and it is a 4x100. Is the 5 lug a conversion? Or did later years switch to 5 lug?

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cooch8c View Post
    I race a E30 and it is a 4x100. Is the 5 lug a conversion? Or did later years switch to 5 lug?
    I believe it's the later years, also could be specific models too...


    If anyone wants to follow along this process, attached is the file I've been using to manage everything.
    Includes wheel bearings and their dimensions
    Hubs and relative dimensions

    WheelBearingsHub.xls

  7. #7

    Default

    I haven't found a single 5x114.3 hub that works with the track axle. I've tried eight different hubs, and they are all too narrow in the axle bore.

    Interestingly though... I have custom axles from Drive Shaft Shop. I had DSS make me axles based on Contour SVT hubs/bearings. The axle spline on the outers is 26. Meaning, if any of you decide to get custom axles from DSS, the outer SHOULD be the same as mine, using a FD6 hub from DSS.

    I FINALLY found a 5x114.3 hub that fits that axle spline, although the offset is a bit aggressive, push the brake rotor out further. Meaning, if you swap to these, the rotor hat will need to be offset more than the factory hats by probably close to 5-6mm.

    The hub that fits the DSS axles is from an AWD Ford Escape (01-12), the rear hubs (PN 29595093 and 930-108).


    Also, I may have found a solution for my setup, using the Mazda's ecosystem.

    Mazda 3 / 5 (05-13) (PN: 29595054 and 930-003) fit the axle nicely, fit the wheel bearing fairly well, and is very close to the rotor offset.

    My next piece is whether I want to grind down the hubs, as the hub shaft that fits into the bearing is 3mm too tall... or make spacers so the hub, bearing, and axle all make proper contact and compress each other accordingly.

  8. #8

    Default

    I ended up going with Mazda3 hubs. They are on order and will be arriving within a week.

    I won't be able to reuse the track axles, so I am opting to making my own. Basically got a pair of front outer CV joints from a Mazda3, cut them down, boom... track axle.

    The speed sensor in the passenger spindle needs to be addressed though. My speedometer is managed by GPS, so I don't NEED the speed sensor, but having the axle fitted with the same trigger wheel would be helpful if I ever need to revert back to the old speed sensor. So, that will take some time, engineering, and fabrication to fit.

    I wish I had a stock axle that has the trigger wheel welded to the back of the bolt. I could cut that off and weld it on my new axle and call it a day.


    I'll snap a photo of the hubs installed once I get everything.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    West Creek Nj
    Posts
    424
    Rep Power
    7

    Default

    Great work so far! Would the Rossion 5 lug setup work? Or is there a difference?

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