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Thread: Remaped Ecu For M12 Or M400

  1. #1
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    Default Remaped Ecu For M12 Or M400

    Hello,

    Wanted to know if anyone could give me some feedback on the upgraded remap for the Nobles. I did see one post for a M400 and I know there is a M12 out there that was done by Seth and HOPED to get some feedback. Looking to have it done soon and wanted to make sure there is no problems! Any help would be appreciated!

    Mike
    M12#71

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    Mike,

    Is there a particular problem you are experiencing or are you only interested in a wider powerband and smoother power. Is there an idle/stalling issue on yours?

    I believe that MicaM400 and one lap M400 have had their cars remapped by Seth. No Lotus (M400) and Joel (3R) have had theirs remapped by Hoover. Mine has also been remapped by Hoover.

    Craig

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDaKine View Post
    Hey, this is just a thought, but.......

    Is it possible that the reason Mike E. and 1g are somewhat less than positive (in public forum anyway) about the need for an aftermarket remap is that they sold many of us an expensive "400hp" mapping that not only didn't make 400hp but made stallers of our cars? It occurs to me that they might worry about a bunch of disgruntled owners asking for refunds.

    Hmmm?

    If you contact 1G, they will answer that question personally. All you have to do is ask. There has always been an excellent map available for both the M400, and the M12.

    You just have to let them know that you need it. It is also possible to really screw up a Noble with an improper setup of the hardware.

    If you are looking for a conspiracy theory, well, you really need to go to the source. Call 1G and talk to Dean or Mike.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.J.Morgan View Post
    There has always been an excellent map available for both the M400, and the M12.

    Then why the hell didn't it go into the cars from new?

    Martin.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by V6GTO View Post
    Then why the hell didn't it go into the cars from new?

    Martin.
    It did. Don't believe everything that you read on this site, especially if it comes from Cacobra. He has a thing for any car that doesn't have a Hoover map.

    Many "Map" related problems can be traced to hardware setup and vacuum leaks. Occasionally, there is a sensor problem, but most of the time, it is something stupid that the installer did.

    I had an M400 that had stalling problems, especially with the A/C on. It turned out to be a vacuum leak, and not the "computer" as all of the arm chair experts had said.

    It was a test car, and after a smoke test, the vacuum leak was fixed, and the car had no further problems. It ran 0-60 in 3.3 seconds, and pulled the Carrera GT through 120 mph without problem.

    M400 maps have always been more developed than the M12 map. That said, I have not driven a slow M12, and have spent quite a bit of time in the California summer with an M12 that had no running problems at all.
    The major complaint is that when the temperature gets hot enough, the map protects the engine from detonation by pulling timing and adding fuel until it gets cool enough to run "closed loop" again. Normally, this occurs in traffic, and is of no consequence. If you summon full power after sitting idle for some time, the engine will not have full power avialable. Not a big deal. A couple of minutes of free running cools things down. I hardly noticed it when accelerating hard.

    The fixes include heat shields to keep heat from the after cooler, and after cooler fans.

    The M400s have no such troubles that are map related. I have run my car at the desert track in 80F weather (as hot as it has been since I received the car) without oil cooling or other problems. Two magazies ran track tests and reported no problems whatsoever. It was the quickest thing there with plates on it.

    I know several other owners running at the track and have no map related problems.

    There is no doubt that there is hidden HP in the M12 map, and the M400s as well. The idea that you NEED it to enjoy the car or go fast is silly.

    If you want more power, and have some modifications or a larger after cooler, you can get some more HP by optomizing the setup and the map.

    Not doing this gives you a car that does 120 mph in the quarter, or faster.

    Cacobra likes to paint the entire production with a very wide brush. His car had a not quite ready for prime time, special high boost map. It turned out to be problematic for his car, and a couple of others that tried it. Returning to the standard map, and making sure that the hardware was properly set up was a help to most of the handful of owners. Some never were happy, or moved on to the next car of the month.

    Cacobra takes it personally that I am not for every Noble getting a Hoover map. I will go with 1G and their Roush development program. Roush can do production quality work and has the resources to run a full engine development program.

    Hoover can take your car and custom tune it, if that turns you on.

    If you were to buy a used M12, I would recommend going to Hoover if you were in the area, and felt that your M12 was not working as well as you expected. Hoover is familiar with the car, and can handle both the hardware, and the software.

    Cacobra doesn't believe that my car is just fine. It's performance has been documented. I would love to see the performance of the Hooverized Cacobramobile. I would even be impressed if it went quicker.

    And if it wasn't quicker, well, its an M12, and not an M400.

    Also, there is some performance left in the M400 stock map/engine combination that Cacobra doesn't know about. Though a "speed density" system, there is just enough head room...

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.J.Morgan View Post
    It did.
    Then why are there so many cars, in the UK and the US, having exactly the same problems?
    Quote Originally Posted by S.J.Morgan View Post

    Don't believe everything that you read on this site, especially if it comes from Cacobra. He has a thing for any car that doesn't have a Hoover map.
    It seems to me that he has every reason to sing Hoover's praises...it would appear he's done, and is still doing, a great job.
    Quote Originally Posted by S.J.Morgan View Post

    Many "Map" related problems can be traced to hardware setup and vacuum leaks. Occasionally, there is a sensor problem, but most of the time, it is something stupid that the installer did.
    Many, but not all.
    Quote Originally Posted by S.J.Morgan View Post

    I had an M400 that had stalling problems, especially with the A/C on. It turned out to be a vacuum leak, and not the "computer" as all of the arm chair experts had said.
    But that is just one example...you stand accused of doing what you tell others not to...speaking without knowing
    Quote Originally Posted by S.J.Morgan View Post

    M400 maps have always been more developed than the M12 map.
    How do you know that?
    Quote Originally Posted by S.J.Morgan View Post

    I know several other owners running at the track and have no map related problems.
    And I know about 40 owners personally, at least three of them have had map related problems
    Quote Originally Posted by S.J.Morgan View Post

    Cacobra likes to paint the entire production with a very wide brush. His car had a not quite ready for prime time, special high boost map. It turned out to be problematic for his car, and a couple of others that tried it. Returning to the standard map, and making sure that the hardware was properly set up was a help to most of the handful of owners. Some never were happy, or moved on to the next car of the month.
    Well, having been involved with Nobles for 4 years now, an owner for 2 1/2 years, I'm telling you that he has a better handle on the big picture than you do.
    Quote Originally Posted by S.J.Morgan View Post

    I will go with 1G and their Roush development program. Roush can do production quality work and has the resources to run a full engine development program.
    You have no choice, they loan you the car...you do not own it.

    As for the rest of your post, the parts I deleted, well, it's stuff that we all know... or your personal opinions which I am totally uninterested in. You used to come across as a know all, but now we find you must toe the party line because 1G pay some of your cheques, and now you just come across as a lacky. Don't get angry with me for that...you did it all on your own.

    Martin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by V6GTO View Post
    Then why the hell didn't it go into the cars from new?

    Martin.
    He must be referring to only the car that has been loaned to him, Martin. We all know that isn't true here in the US. Some of them are very bad, as can be seen in the dyno plots on those, compared to the UK dyno plots. And even those owners that he says are perfectly satisfied, probably just have no point of reference to know how good it should be, just like him. What we are finding now through the work of folks like Hoover is that there isn't a single Noble map that can't be improved, including his.

    The DH of TO doesn't seem to recognize that M12's even exist anymore (he was ever loaned one of those) and, as long as his loaner car has the latest and greatest M400 map available, he thinks they are all the same. As a well known stand up comedian likes to say: You can't fix stupid, but at least now you can fix the bad maps and the "perfect" maps with a simple remap. Our little buddy will just have to accept that reality at some point. He's slow to catch on to things like this since his head is always buried somewhere and it prevents him from listening to others.

    As far as continuation of using Trevor to provide the ECU maps here in the US, that isn't likely to happen. There is far too much talent here in the US for something like this, such as Hoover. No need to rely on UK talent anymore. That was only because there was a relationship between Lee Noble and Roush UK and Lee Noble had complete control then. The logistics are bad and some things obviously got lost in the translation on some of our cars. Like m0nitor said, SJ needs to phone home.

    Craig
    Last edited by caccobra; 03-23-2007 at 04:59 AM.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by V6GTO View Post
    Then why are there so many cars, in the UK and the US, having exactly the same problems?It seems to me that he has every reason to sing Hoover's praises...it would appear he's done, and is still doing, a great job.Many, but not all.But that is just one example...you stand accused of doing what you tell others not to...speaking without knowingHow do you know that?And I know about 40 owners personally, at least three of them have had map related problemsWell, having been involved with Nobles for 4 years now, an owner for 2 1/2 years, I'm telling you that he has a better handle on the big picture than you do.You have no choice, they loan you the car...you do not own it.

    As for the rest of your post, the parts I deleted, well, it's stuff that we all know... or your personal opinions which I am totally uninterested in. You used to come across as a know all, but now we find you must toe the party line because 1G pay some of your cheques, and now you just come across as a lacky. Don't get angry with me for that...you did it all on your own.

    Martin.
    Well, we do our own engine installs here in the US. Some shops are good, others not so good. Good installs get good cars, bad installs get cars that owners have to fiddle with, for years, evidently, to make right. The installers sometimes make "improvements" that may have a negative effect on performance. Sorry that you didn't get that earlier.

    Sorry that you are so steamed that my car works, and yours doesn't.

    If a Hoover map works for you, great. Get one already and stop bitching. Hoover can also fix the map for cars that have been "improved". This I highly recommend.

    My opinions here are my own, and are not paid by for by 1G. Generally, my views are quite different than those of a few of the guys here, as my professional experiences are a subatantially different than the average owner. This is not new to anyone that hangs out here. Get used to it.

    I never said NOT to get a new map. I just said that not every car needs one, as not every car had Cacobra's problems. That his car is now fixed is a fine recommendation for Hoover's work, even when done from long distance. I have always recommended Hoover.

    Oh, one more thing. I didn't get the job of prepping the Noble test car, which goes out to US magazines for being a "lacky". Our magazines are made up of journalists that don't really like UK cars to start with, and find any "component car" to be the punchline of a joke. None of the magazines would even cover the car here until that first story nearly 4 years ago on the 3R. I forget who the writer was that actually got a magazine to do 1500 words on an obscure "kit car" with a readership that has a median income of about $300,000 USD/month. That the Noble has been well received in the US press lately is of course due to the excellent nature of the car. However, it must be remembered that presentation is everything, and the car has to be as perfect as possible. That's my primary responsibility. The blue car's performance has been documented by several magazines now, and its engine performance is now legendary. It is a standard engine, properly set up and maintained. Complaints by a couple of magazines about notching shifting into 6th, and "murky" steering have been addressed (Not so bad. Even Mercedes cars have had the same criticisms). I can't think of any comments about the engine other than "HolyShit!" the first time they cracked open the throttle, and clocked that 3.3 naught to 60 on the way to an 11.7 quarter mile.

    I really like Nobles, and I am especially fond of the M400, and this particular car.

    The finance company also "loans" you the car. You don't own it. Just stop making your payments to test that theory.

    I have driven Nobles over 10,000 miles in the last three months. How many miles have you put on in the last 2.5 years? Owning is one thing, driving and maintaining the car is another. If you can't consider me a Noble owner, then Noble driver will be just fine. Hoover is not a Noble owner, yet.

    Everything else that you may have heard about my relationship with 1G and the other companies that I do work for is 5th hand, and incredibly incorrect. Those that say that they "know me" on this site have yet to exchange E mails, let alone have actually met me, exchanged a phone call or viewed a photo.

    Accusations and bullshit posts attacking the character of individual forum members puts off prospective owners, and will really screw up what could be an excellent place to exchange information on Nobles.
    Last edited by S.J.Morgan; 03-23-2007 at 09:43 AM.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by S.J.Morgan View Post

    Accusations and bullshit posts attacking the character of individual forum members puts off prospective owners, and will really screw up what could be an excellent place to exchange information on Nobles.
    There are some really good points.......on both sides. Once again, deep breaths seem to be the order of the day.

    Where's that group hug photo!

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDaKine View Post
    There are some really good points.......on both sides. Once again, deep breaths seem to be the order of the day.

    Where's that group hug photo!
    It's too late.

    Consider the board 'jacked. Lots of others have. Notice all the participation from the "regulars" that might have something to add.

    Craig and Monitor can have it.

    Really, they protest too much.

    Boost up, Frat boys. One might think that guys with your money would have something better to do than mess around here with me. You guys are rich and could be hanging in Goa, or Hong Kong with your best friends.

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