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Thread: Noble or C6Z....what to do?

  1. #1

    Default Noble or C6Z....what to do?

    OK, I have a pretty good idea what type of response I am going to get by posting this on the Noble board but I guess I'll do it anyway.

    I am looking for some opinions on the purchase of a Noble M400 vs. C6Z. The car would be used for HPDE, and some general cruising. Certainly not a daily driver. It appears both would set me back about 80k. (a used M400 vs a new C6Z)

    My concerns for the Noble are: how much effort does it take to get it to be ready on the track? (seems not much)
    Is it bullet proof on the track? (having had corvettes in the past I know they'll take a beating all day long)
    Will I be able to re-sell the Noble without losing my shirt?
    Am I going to blow 80K on a Noble just to get my doors blown off by some chump in a Z with a 5 year 100k mile warranty?

    For those who have run Grattan, Gingerman, Mid-OH, WH and Autobahn how do your track times compare?

    For reference my previous track cars have been an EVO, C5Z and just finished and sold a FFR GTM.

    For any of those of you in Metro Detroit that want to take me for a ride I am in Clarkston.

    Thanks,

  2. #2

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    Out of curiosity, what was wrong with the FFR GTM as a track car?
    http://www.factoryfive.com/gtmhome.html

  3. #3

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    Nothing is wrong with the GTM in fact it is still in my garage pending a sale. Its not quite finished at the moment. A lot of time and effort needs to be put into the GTM to get it right for the track. There are tons of engine, and more importantly transmission options. The G50 is the big issue. A lot of owners are going through the teething issues with FFR right now. Part of me thinks I might just go back to a C5Z and beat it to death. The parts are SOOO cheap and easy to come by. Plus I could get 2.5 C5's for a Noble or C6Z. Humm

  4. #4
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    Classic query, and not an obvious answer without more insight.
    Sounds like this is a nearly track-only car.
    What turns you on at the track? Speed? Balance? Momentum/Power?
    What do you want to learn?
    What disappoints you--how do you balance ease of use with the experience?
    Do you want as little as possible between you and the track, or appreciate some electronics, some added sense that improves your times and keeps you from (some trouble)?
    I'm not very experienced on the track, certainly not compared with some folks on this board; but I suspect that with some more info, they could give you a very balanced perspective.
    Doug in Cincinnati

  5. #5

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    I have substantial time in both. The Corvette is much heavier, and relies on a sophisticated stability control system to stay on the track. Take it off of the Competition mode, and you have a handful at the limit.

    It costs about $20K less than the Noble, has a taxicab interior, and really poor seats.

    Lap times are simply useless at this time, unless they are YOUR lap times. One thing you might note is that in every comparison test on a track, a Noble was quicker than any model of Z06, including the latest LS7 model. Quicker to 60, through the cones, around the skid pad, and at the end of the quarter mile.

    As for the practical aspects:

    For hard track work, you may have to look at the Z06 brakes. You will have to install a roll cage or harness bar. The dampers still need work, and the as delivered chassis setup has some issues, especially when the stability program is off.

    The car was built to a price, which is not bad, but problematic when track time prep is figured. The suspension will have to be adjusted, and a few other details taken care of.

    Of course, you can find dozens of wheels for your Corvette, and lots of other after market bits. Well, the car needs them...

    The Noble on the other hand, has impeccable handling right out of the box. Initial chassis setup can include your corner weighting and ride height adjustment, all done during the installation phase.

    Specify a front mount oil cooler, the large charge air cooler, and your 6 pt belts, and you are ready to go. The Noble already has big brakes, properly valved dampers, the right springs, and when the ride height is set properly, exactly the right chassis setup.

    The Noble is lots lighter, and easier to learn and get comfortable with than the Corvette with the safety switched off.

    This is a big point, by the way. The Noble is easier to drive, sans any stability control at all, than the Corvette is with its stability system switched ON. What this means is that you can go faster with the Noble, and feel safer and more comfortable. It takes less effort to drive.

    For the money, the Z06 is hard to beat, but when it comes to the FEEL, and comfort at high speeds, the Noble drives rings around the porky vette.

    I love both, and never turn down a drive in a Z06 at the track, but when there is a choice, Noble every time.

    The question is simple. How much do you want the best track car? If there was no such thing as a Noble, I would recommend the Z06. However, you asked for an opinion of both cars. Here it is:

    If you don't buy the Noble, you will be kicking yourself for the next decade.

    Buy the Noble, or watch it go by. It is certainly worth every penny of the extra cost.

  6. #6

    Default Thanks

    Hey guys,

    Thanks for the input. As for my experience, as I have mentioned I have plenty of track time under my belt both behind my cars and as an instructor for others. (it was also part of my previous job, I used to calibrate ESC/TCS/ABS for an OEM and was a ride and handling engineer for many years)

    My times in a stone stock C5Z at Grattan are in the 1:28-1:29 range. (with run flats!) Heinricy doesn't push the car around there much faster.

    I dont need driver aids, but ABS is nice if you like to run in the wet. Though to be honest the most fun I have ever had in a car that was mine was in my highly moded EVO in pouring rain at Grattan. (I felt like tommy makinen!)

    The C5Z really just needs tires, pads, a seat, harness bar and alignment to be a fun track car. Maybe some T1 bars and control arms if you get picky.

    The C6z has the funky brakes which I would want to replace. Though it needs the same things as the C5.....seat and harness bar at the minimum.

    My question is, is the Noble reliable. Does the Ford engine / tranny combo hold up? The brakes look good. The power to weight ratio looks fine. The videos I have seen of the car make it look slightly undersprung and underdamped, but it is hard to tell not knowing what the camber gain of the suspension is, etc.

    What are the disposible items? Just brakes and tires? If so great! Or does the clutch need replaced every 6k miles?

    I certainly dont want to piss anyone off....or argue. I am merly looking for some constructive feed back. I think any of the choices will be fun.

    I may just invest some time into sorting the FFR.
    Last edited by Bspeed; 06-12-2007 at 06:04 PM.

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    the suspension.
    A noble will run rings around it

  8. #8
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    My two cents worth.

    During the last DE weekend I drove behind the Corvettes in my E Sports Racer. There is alot of body roll. There is a strong smell like burning brakes.

    By the end of Day One there were 4 or 5 C6s having brakes rebuilt or timing chains replaced.

    Brian's Noble just ran, came back into the garage area and went back out during his next session.

    C6=Nice street car
    Noble=Track and street car

    Noble already has a roll cage.
    Mid engine layout makes it a joy to drive.
    It has much better brakes than the C6.
    There is nothing electronic between you and the track surface.

    If you test drive them both on the track the answer would be easy.
    Dino

    Sarthe Grey Rossion Q1 (Sold to a good home in Colorado)
    Wolf GB08 LMP3/CN Sports Prototype www.motorsports-sw.com www.wolfracingcars.com
    Red 2006 A4 (slow but good gas mileage)
    2012 Audi Q7 TDI (Awesome Highway & Tow Vehicle w/Torque and High MPG)

  9. #9

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    Thanks Dean. I have spent plenty of time in C5s and C6's on the track just never a Noble. As far as I am concerned brake pads and tires are the price of entry having safe fun so I dont mind spending money there.

    Show me the same driver in each car and some Racelogic data. Someone has to have it!

    This was just posted on the corvette forum :http://www.t1vetteforsale.com/index.htm

    Ugh...what to do?
    Last edited by Bspeed; 06-12-2007 at 06:48 PM.

  10. #10
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    Generally, the Noble will just need brakes, tires and oil changes as standard maintance for track use. Just ask DerekFSU on this board as he took his stock Noble around the country doing track events for many consecutive months when he first aquired his M400 and just changed brake pads and tires during his quest. At the end of the day the Noble's maintance is relative to any other 'ultra-performance' car and provides an almost impossible to beat experience.

    Another very important note, the Noble has an unprecedented feel that is not comparitive to the Vette in every aspect. Yes, the C6Z is a good performance value, but I wouldn't buy one. I would rather have a Cayman S or BMW M Coupe, much more fun and interactive cars to drive. Heck, even an SRT-10 Coupe is more fun to drive than the vette.

    My .02
    S54 M Coupe Pheonix Yellow/Black (rare bird)
    S52 M Coupe Estoril/Estoril (show queen)
    E60 M5 Dinan S3R Stroker (family hauler)
    997.1TT RST600 (Beast)

    gone, but not forgotten...
    #160 M400 Troy Tuned - Red Mica - (RCKT PWR)

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