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Thread: PNP Heads to SVT Intake Manifolds

  1. #1

    Default PNP Heads to SVT Intake Manifolds

    To the people who asked:

    Here's a quick look at what the ported & polished 3.0L heads look like matched to the split-port lower intake manifold of the SVT Contour:

    RacePrecision GotApex

    "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity." ~ Horace Mann

  2. #2

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    Won't know until it's on the dyno. From what I understand, it's already been proven on turbocharged Contours and Cougars (V6 Duratec based). We'll see how we do on this after my car is back together.
    RacePrecision GotApex

    "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity." ~ Horace Mann

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    Just cleaned up the ports. Took darn near 2 hours to do it. Much respect to Jesse at PnP for grinding it down as far as it was from stock. I dont think I have the patience for it! The volume of these are much larger than the oval ports found in the 3.0L. I expect significant gains on the dyno.
    Eloy
    Race Precision, Inc
    7029 Marcelle Street
    Paramount, CA 90723
    www.raceprecision.com

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    Guys,

    I am honestly puzzled why everyone is trying to get more horsepower. I can't get what I have to the road. On Corsas, coming out of a turn at 70 mph in 4th gear I can break the back tires loose. I need to know how to put bigger tires on or install a traction control.

    What am I missing?

    Dean

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    Hey guys I'm Jesse and helping Gabe and Rollinhard get this pacakge set up. The stock oval port heads are designed for a 200hp 200tq taurus! They make great TQ but absoultey starve in the upper rpms ranges. Here are some measurements to illustrate the point, we'll start with the exhaust:

    3L Oval port Exh: 47mm x 25mm (Valve ratio - 1175/1400 = 84% No wonder why it dogs out in the upper rpm!)
    3L Oval Ported: 50mm x 30mm (~27% larger (Valve ratio - 1500/1400 = 107% )

    Make sure to use Fel-Pro gaskets as they are larger then OEM and won't restrict the flow.

    Intakes are a massive gain in flow with better swirl and mixing characteristics. I haven't done the measurements on them cause of the oblong shape but I'm guessing they are in the neighborhood of a 35% increase.

    Cheers!
    I offer port and polished heads for any year duratec! www.pnpheads.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by turnbaugh
    Guys,

    I am honestly puzzled why everyone is trying to get more horsepower. I can't get what I have to the road. On Corsas, coming out of a turn at 70 mph in 4th gear I can break the back tires loose. I need to know how to put bigger tires on or install a traction control.

    What am I missing?

    Dean
    I would tend to agree with that thought. On a track wider tires can hurt a light car as you have to work hard to get them hot in a few laps. On street tires, Corsa's included, my opinion is that bigger is better. There are several different makes of 285/30/18's available and Tire rack.com gives the specs of each on their web site so you can find one with a smaller section width as the tire is really close under there. I am working on a racecar project that will be running 315/35/17 Front and 335/35/17's rear! Now that is "bigger is better" in action! It is not a Viper/Vette and will be less than 2400#'s

  7. #7

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    Traction controll is a wonderful thing, for the dynamically challenged. Over the last year, I have driven dozens of cars with traction and dynamic stability control, and found that, for the most part, the cars were underdeveloped in the handling department.

    It appeared that only the bottom end of the handling performance spectrum was addressed, while the programmers worked on the details to ensure top end stability by eliminating the top end entirely. Without HP, no need to finish off that problem with snap oversteer or terminal understeer under power.

    What I ended up with were cars that would not accelerate off of corners, and no way for ME to modulate the power for acceleration or for rotation.

    Fortunately, the Noble is properly developed throughout its entire speed range. I don't think that traction control is needed, and, in fact, I think that it would screw up a perfectly balanced car.

    If you are actually breaking your Corsas loose in 4th gear, I might suggest modulation of the throttle. OR:

    The real problem may be the Corsas themselves. Not that the Corsa is a bad tire, buy you may have a bad set with too many heat cycles. I had that problem at one Noble test. No traction due to a hardened set of Corsas, complete with tread. A change to fresh rubber fixed everything. Just about all high performance cars, when faced with a degredadtion of handling, have a bad set of tires.

    Tires go off, especially the high performance type. We notice this more as there is a tendency to drive the cars harder. Tires that may be one year to 1.5 years old might be marginal, especially if there have been high speed events and AutoX. Before going crazy with traction control, try a fresh set of tires. The difference is amazing, and it is quite a bit less expensive than installing a traction control to drive the car for you.

    I have to agree about the HP. The Noble is perfectly balanced, and really doesn't need MORE power. What needs to be addressed is the reliability of the power, and power delivery. Same HP, but a bit more torque spread over the entire rev range might be nice...However, I actually like the Noble's engine as it is. Very little turbo lag if the correct gear is selected, plenty of power until the after cooler gets hot. Easy enough to fix. Cams? Ports? Bigger boost numbers. I think not.

    Adding power in a turbo engine by increasing boost and messing with the cams will only serve to narrow the power band in most cases. Most individuals will not care to tear out the engine and put it on a dyno for a year's worth of testing to both increase power, and widen the power band while developing multiple cam profiles and experimenting with variable cam timing.

    Adding power, while narrowing the power band, only makes the car harder to drive and twitchy at the limit. Getting a nice shot off of a corner, or a bit of rotation under power becomes difficult to accomplish with light switch power delivery. The balance is ruined, so a band aid traction contro is necessary to keep it controllable. Why not soften the power delivery so it is controllable at the throttle and let the driver use some skills?

    Adding larger tires will only serve to ruin the balance of the Noble's chassis. It has PRECISELY, the amount of grip it needs, perfectly balanced against its power output, delivery and chassis weight. It is an incredible piece of engineering. I think that it works better than any road car that I have driven, and better than most race cars.

    Even Patrick Carpentier did not specify any changes to the Noble after numerous quick laps at Autobahn Country Club. I asked him for a technical analysis of the car's handling, and he responded that it was "perfect" (Perfect: 5% understeer, excellent balance between oversteer and understeer. Exactly enough power to balance the chassis between oversteer and understeer. Power or brakes could be used to keep the chassis balanced. Excellent controllability at the limit. Excellent steering feel, feedback and effort and response. "We spend thousands of miles of testing to get this kind of balance in our race cars" he added). He then returned to the track and demonstrated as to why it was perfect. He did not think that it needed more power, bigger tires, lighter wheels or artificial driver's aids. He did this through demonstration, which I thought was quite a bit more informative than just offering the words. He didn't want to get out of the car.
    I certainly didn't need Carpentier to tell me that I should like the car, but he did confirm everything that I already knew from previous drives.

    Sure, there may be room for improvement, if you could convince me that you actually could find what was wrong with the car's dynamics to start with. Most arguments would be theoretical at best.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by S.J.Morgan
    Traction controll is a wonderful thing, for the dynamically challenged. Over the last year, I have driven dozens of cars with traction and dynamic stability control, and found that, for the most paive than just offering the words. He didn't want to get out of the car.
    I certainly didn't need Carpentier to tell me that I should like the car, but he did confirm everything that I already knew from previous drives.

    Sure, there may be room for improvement, if you could convince me that you actually could find what was wrong with the car's dynamics to start with. Most arguments would be theoretical at best.

    That was an infomative and inspiring treatise from some one obviously infinitely more experienced than I. It cleared up some issues for me. The one thing I am still a bit bothered with, though, is that the engine desigh specifications to no include porting and polishing in a way to optimize flow efficiencies. It's easy enough for a large engine builder to do it but a relative pain afterward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrDaKine
    That was an infomative and inspiring treatise from some one obviously infinitely more experienced than I. It cleared up some issues for me. The one thing I am still a bit bothered with, though, is that the engine desigh specifications to no include porting and polishing in a way to optimize flow efficiencies. It's easy enough for a large engine builder to do it but a relative pain afterward.
    I agree. Afterall, an automobile engine is nothing more than a big air pump. The faster it takes air in and the faster it pumps it out, the more horsepower it generates. Therefore the more efficient you make the air flow through the engine the more power you produce. Port matching and porting of the heads (to reduce turbulence) is the easiest way to get the biggest bang for your buck when trying to increase horsepower. I'm ceratinly no expert, but I think there is probably another 50-75 ponies on tap for a properly ported and polished Noble. It would have been nice to be able to get the engines with that work already spec'd. We'd already be running around in 500 h.p. cars that only weigh 2,400 lbs. Could it be that is what Lee and Co. have done with the M14??????

    Craig

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    Monitor, you are BAD!

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