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Thread: Adding power...

  1. #1
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    Default Adding power...

    I want to maximize a Troy tune I will be getting soon. My concern is when you increase one thing, something else gets overwhelmed. I guess I want to know if the stock injectors will flow enough to overwhelm the tranny? Or is the tranny strong enough that you would need to upgraded injectors to get even more of a tune?

    The same question worded differently:
    What is the max/safe amount of torque the tranny can handle and will the stock injectors get you there?

    I will be adding a free flow exhaust and have the upgraded i.c.
    Over 3000lbs=boring. 0-60 over 4 seconds=boring. Under 1g=boring. Noble, not boring.

  2. Default

    Tranny issue is a bit to do with power delivery. A good linear curve is less of a "hit" on the drivetrain and will allow more power. An abrupt or exponential curve puts more overall stress on the driveline and upgrades are needed sooner.

    The stock injectors will get you over the 400 rwhp easily and reliably. How much over and what safety margin is the call here. 500 and although you can make it, the safety margin and reliability shrink.

    The "guidelines" tend to be that the 450rwhp number is a pretty safe bet on stock injectors and drivetrain (modded exhaust). As you go up in hp from there, I'd up the injectors to be safe. At 500+ I would upgrade drivetrain as well to keep the reliability high.
    -- Mike
    04 Noble M12 GTO-3R (Robb and Hoover)
    http://www.turbohoses.com/Nobleperformance.htm
    97 3000GT VR-4
    00 Dakota Sport

  3. #3
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    i've seen a few Nobles with adjustable fuel pressure reglators.

    most mfg. do not recommend these injectors run higher fuel pressures than 70psi.

    with the stock fuel pressure, it would require a 69lb. injector to support 450whp at an 80% duty cycle.

    If you raise the fuel pressure to 70psi., the stock 42lb. injector will be a 482cc/46lb. It's pretty shy of the 69lbs. Again, most tuners won't max out the injector due to the heat it generates in the wiring and fuel.

    Most of us don't always drive at 450whp which happens at around the 4800rpm+ area, and if we do, we are only there momentarily during street driving. On the track it's necessary to sustain fuel delivery consistantly.
    Last edited by Hoover; 07-06-2010 at 10:02 PM. Reason: added
    Factory Noble Software
    Noble M400 SCCA GT-1 Podium 2014

    www.Noble-Speed.com

    TurboHoses R&D
    Noble, Rossion and Lotus Performance
    http://www.turbohoses.com/Nobleperformance.htm

    Hooverc@TurboHoses.com
    925-455-1066
    Livermore CA.

    www.OriginSportsCars.com
    HVR & Origin N

  4. Default

    Point taken Hoover since my car is 95% street driven and you guys tuned for that.
    -- Mike
    04 Noble M12 GTO-3R (Robb and Hoover)
    http://www.turbohoses.com/Nobleperformance.htm
    97 3000GT VR-4
    00 Dakota Sport

  5. #5
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    Given our fuel starvation issues at wot, Hoover's new delivery system is rated at 620 crank hp. That should do it! A true piece of automotive mastery.
    Robert

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Muenter View Post
    Point taken Hoover since my car is 95% street driven and you guys tuned for that.
    Hi Mike, when you moving to Cali and how are things? Haven't spoken to you in a billion years.

    There's a sweet spot for "power" with every engine, but what's optimal for power isn't necessarily what's best for the track. On our track days, most of what I see are a few hot laps then back into the paddock, sit around for a while, refuel and back out. Not much time for things to happen. On the straights, I rarely see an all out attempt to hit 160mph+ over and over and over. Then there's heat over time. The MBE can not adjust for individual cylinders and fuel pressures have to be as even as possible, otherwise one part of the rail heats up more than the other. Also lacking knock sensors, we have to be a bit more conservative and compensate throught the temperature maps as much as possible.

    I fully expected to build a second, third engine for our R&D car, DV. Having a chance to open up the motor/s, so many times, you learn quite a bit of how to make things a little better for the next round. The last thing I thought was to see Dv's engine splitting in two, I thought we spun a bearing or anything else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeman View Post
    Given our fuel starvation issues at wot, Hoover's new delivery system is rated at 620 crank hp. That should do it! A true piece of automotive mastery.
    Since this is only a race car, it's easy to give it all the right parts. The bosch fuel pump's flow rate was subpar to begin with.
    I suggested to 9secz yesterday that he have two maps. One for the street and one for the track.
    It's a bit of a pain in the AXX, but if we're at the track with any of our customers, we make adjustments to a few of the parts and tune for longer straights with higher speeds if the customer wants to drive past past the 160+mph.
    Last edited by Hoover; 07-07-2010 at 07:32 AM. Reason: added
    Factory Noble Software
    Noble M400 SCCA GT-1 Podium 2014

    www.Noble-Speed.com

    TurboHoses R&D
    Noble, Rossion and Lotus Performance
    http://www.turbohoses.com/Nobleperformance.htm

    Hooverc@TurboHoses.com
    925-455-1066
    Livermore CA.

    www.OriginSportsCars.com
    HVR & Origin N

  7. #7
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    How do you switch maps?
    Will something similar to the Cobb Acessport works?
    Wilson

    " For power, buy the Corvette.
    For weight, buy the Exige.
    For handling, buy the GT3.
    If you are looking for all three, buy the Noble. "

    By Godzilla...

  8. #8
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    I think some people made use of the rear fog light switch
    -Kevin

  9. #9

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    a bit off topic, but i looked around a bit. since this thread is on adding power, i figured it may be a decent place to post my question.

    on your guys (we me too) what are the boost pressure limits of the plastic IM? i see in Hoovers sig, it says his M400 is at 21psi. Hoover if you dont mind me asking, is that pressure held on the stock plastic manifold?

    only asking because i am concerned about the mani possibly cracking or splitting at higher boost pressures.

    thanks ahead of time.

    all, what are the fuel issues you guys are running into? ill go look around in the mean time
    Punisher 6 - Custom Twin Turbo Mazda 6
    Fully Built Duratec V6 - Noble Hybrid


  10. #10
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    Troy may recall more precisely, but I recall that my stock intake manifold split at 1.8 bar.
    Dave
    2007 M400 Chassis #210 (original owner) - Carbon Fiber White! - Livermore rehab complete and highly successful! - 535 whp.
    2010 BMW X5M. ECU tune. 600 HP.
    2008 996TT Cabriolet. ECU tune. 520 HP.
    2010 Toyota Tundra. Stock!
    2010 Yamaha Raptor - header-back exhaust, intake, and ECU. 55 HP. By FAR the most thrill for the dollar!
    2011 Polaris RZR XP Aerocharger Turbo with fully built engine - 120 whp.
    2011 Coachman E450, 27 foot RV - with aftermarket tune...no joke, I tuned my RV!

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